A Rover P5B V8 Coupe,running,repairs and renovation.
Considered by some the best,and the last of the 'real' rovers,known as 'the poor mans Rolls Royce'.Are they all rust and reputation or a true British motoring Icon ?

I owned a white Rover P5 saloon years ago,but it was rotten beyond repair and eventually broken for spares.I promised myself I'd have another one day.Over twenty five years later I have a V8 version.Although slower I think the six cylinder 3 litres are quieter and smoother,the last ones were reasonably powerfull but the engines were considerably heavier than the later Buick V8 although the steering probably benefits from this as it is very light on the P5b.The six early cylinder cars were in some ways the last of the 'real' rovers,as they were assembled by Rover in the pre Leyland era however they now seem fated to stay in the shadow of their eight cylindered brothers.Many Rover enthusiasts still insist they were better put together than the V8 versions.
I bought this rover P5b coupe,soon christened 'Humphrey' .Tax exempt and with a badly resprayed but very sound body,I looked forward to a relatively relaxed rolling restoration.It had stood for some years and wasn't running that well but did have a virtually full MOT..When it arrived home the first thing was to clean out the entire fuel system of the dirt that had accumulated in storage.Originally I planned a light restoration without taking the car out of service but whilst the car (christened Humphrey) had some hidden corrosion issues much of it was a lot better than I'd hoped and I thought it deserved a rather more extensive overhauling.
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A half hearted prod underneath revealed a spring hanger section held together by the original factory applied underseal at the rear.This was the rear shackle on the near side,my thumb pushed through the crumbling metal in front of and behind it.The corrosion was localised and hidden by the sealer which was thick and very hard.Removing the exhaust (which was relatively new and easy to remove) and the spare wheel carrier for access the chassis section was cut out and a new section welded in. |
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Less serious were some pin holes and some minor corrosion in the inner sills and door posts at the front on both sides hidden under the stainless steel trims.The vehicle had new outer sills fitted at some time but these holes hadn't been attended to. The finished plate was covered by the stainless steel sill covers but water now couldn't get into the sills from inside. (Below right) The inner wings where serious rot is often a problem on the P5 series were sound,it looks like the outer wings had been removed at some time and the inners repaired. |
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From a cardboard pattern I made a small welded and shaped section to replace the bottom corroded area The floor was still good,mainly still the original paint with only slight surface rust in a few places. |
The plate was welded in place then painted and fluid film sprayed into the sill space. |
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The linkage between the twin SU carbs and the kick down cable for the BW35 gear box has been altered,possibly as a result of the engine and/or gearbox being changed in the past.The change down when coming to rest was rather harsh and made a distinct thud.A lumpy downchange is common on many vehicles fitted with the Borg Warner type 35 but can be lessened by carefull adjustment to the kick down cable.The cross linkage needed altering to allow the kick down to operate and the box to change down smoothly on coming to a stop.Owners of other Rover P5bs on the Rover p5 forum provided lots of info and helped get the gearbox settings finalised. |
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The electrics were a bit hit and miss.Rather than sort out corroded connections in the fuse box cable had been connected to the head and side lamps joining each side to its opposite number,This effectively bypassed the fuses and meant the parking light switch turned the headlights on and off. The fuse box on the late P5 series cars is a long black plastic Lucas unit with the connections from wires to each end of the fuses rivetted through the plastic.These eventually become loose and result in bad connections and unreliable electrics.The plastic is held by a single screw at each end and can crack when tightened.I bonded the cracked fuse box onto a sheet of fibre glass and soldered the connections. Changing a bulb in a front indicator revealed both lamps were badly corroded.Many cars of the 60s and 70s have fittings made out of this Mazk like material which corrodes rapidly and is vitually impossible to repair. |
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Because the corrosion had rotted out the fixing bolts,the front indicators had been stuck ,complete with the grotty remains of the rubber covers straight to the body with evostick.The indicator lamps were removed and repaired temporarily with a two pack epoxy,later I was able to buy some better replacements.Even corroded lamps are worth keeping as spares,as little is available new now for these big cars. |
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A new door seal was made for the trailing part on the drivers door.The original had perished althouh the rest seem in reasonable order. The replacement seal ewas made by bonding two commercially available sections together to achieve the required shape.The new seal seems to fit well over the door lock aperture and the door closes with a satisfying clunk. |
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The grille and front bumper were reasonable,but some better ones turned up later on ebay and by swapping over the best bits the front looks quite presentable.The front bumper is actually three seperate sections and the grill surrounds and the centre slats can be dismantled like a sort of meccano set.Some of the rivets holding the grille together had corroded and were renewed. |
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Changing the anti roll bar links rubbers which had gone hard and were cracked revealed there was wear on the metal links themselves. The rubbers were replaced by a set intended for a Rover P4. |
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The ends of the links were ground and filed down to remove the wear and rust marks. |
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A sleeve of steel tubing was slid over and made a tight fit on the worn section of the links,the edges tapered off and it was welded to the pins and the UNF thread on the ends cleaned up. |
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The pins were cleaned up and coated with an anti rust treatment,using brake fluid as a lubricant the bottom bushes were fitted and the link pins assembled back on the car. |
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The interior was tatty but nothing was missing and new carpets had been fitted.The door cards were poor,like most old cars they'd been affected by damp but they were repairable,the seats were cracked and the stitching had come away.Some of the seams had opened but the seats were still repairable,considering the cars age they had survived quite well. |
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The foam in the drivers seat had disintegrated.The leather was wrinkled and seams were splitting.Considering their age and the length of time the car had been stored they had survived reasonably well. |
The vehicle came with some rough spare seats and some odd trim parts and I bought two more front seats from Ebay.These were dismantled and some of the leather panels swapped over.The seats are suprisingly heavy. |
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The reclining mechanism was broken and the seats had been welded in a fixed position.The reclining mechanism was repaired using parts from another seat. |
The seat had a few odd creases but is more comfortable than before.It still needed the leather softening and feeding. |
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Finally after repeated cleaning,then treating with a leather cream and waxing and polishing the interior starts to look a lot better.The leather is still slightly stiff I think the previous owner had effectively sealed it and that makes any treatments used slow to penetrate the leather. |
I replaced the carpet on the console which fitted badly and repaired the switches,the soundproofing over the transmission tunnel was replaced and the vinyl cleaned up.The gear lever brush type draught excluder was also replaced with a cut down domestic seal. |
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The underbonnet responded well to a clean and polish.The underbonnet blanket was missing and ones on ebay seem to fetch a considerable price.I made a new one from coated and treated insulation felt.The twin SU carb set up has a manual choke conversion already fitted.The brake fluid level light stayed on,it uses a cork float that after fourty odd years had soaked up enough brake fluid so that it only just floated.It was replaced with the cork from a champagne bottle. I tried the Morris Golden Film 20W/50 when I changed the oil and filter,after having it recommended to me by a couple of people.It gave a slightly higher reading on the oil pressure gauge and the engine seems to run a bit quieter.I like 20/50 in older engines the modern thinner oils seem to encourage them to burn it. |
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I took the rover to a small car show and meeting in Yarmouth.The taxi came along as back up but wasn't needed.I'm suprised at the interest in the old rover a lot of people seem to genuinely have some sort of affection for them. |
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The suspension top swivels on a P5 or P5b are now long obsolete and virtually irreplaceable.Early ones had grease nipples,the later models are 'sealed for life'.The grease inside can dry out or be lost if the rubber boot is damaged. If the joint has no play dismantling starts by releasing the peined over (staked) areas of the brass plug with a fine punch and removing the brass plug (3/4 inch AF socket).The brass is easily damaged,a six point impact type socket is less likely to round off the corners. |
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Under the brass plug is a washer and plastic bush.These should be checked for wear or damage,if they are the joint must be replaced or refurbished.The joint can have fresh grease smeared on the ball and plastic washer and the plug replaced in the same position as before.If the joint has some play but is undamaged it should be removed from the stub axle and the brass plug tightened to just preload the assembly before it is staked back in place. |
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The original rear bumper was rotten and although I found a better one I decided to see if the original could be repaired.The dents were kocked out but parts had rusted through completely.The holed and thin metal was cut out and a metal plate accurately cut to fill the hole.The chrome was removed round the edges and the plate welded in place.The bumper supports had rusted out and new ones were made from steel plate with captive nuts welded on these were welded on the back of the bumper. |
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The water pump had a slight leak from the gland,and the engine ran cold.The thermostat housing was full of jelly like corrosion,only to be expected in a car with so much so many aluminium castings that had sat for a long time. |
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Some of the smaller bolts holding the water pump sheared off. With the pump and the radiator top mounts removed access was easier and after warming the studs with a blow torch and a soak in Plus Gas the remains were unscrewed.The new bolts were fitted after coating them with copper based grease as an anti seize assembly compound.The threads on the four long bolts are coated with a non setting sealer.These Rovers use UNF and UNC nuts and bolts extensively so an imperial AF tool kit is essential. The AC mechanical fuel pump on these engines are no longer made and the internals hard to find and expensive.I have managed to obtain a small supply of overhaul kits,diaphram,valves,seals and gaskets etc. |
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The rear shock absorbers were Spax Gas adjustable types and after freeing the adjusters they were set to a soft setting which improved the ride,making it less jerky at the expense of a bit of extra roll on cornering, |
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Both front and rear screens on a P5B are renowned for leaking and the rubbers are a time consuming and difficult job to replace,there is some debate as to wether the new rubbers available fit correctly.Most people who have replaced them seem to use several tins of dumdum or similar to help seal them.The coupe and saloon have completely different screens,windows and door frames. The front screen rubbers are reasonable but the chrome strip on the rear one was loose and the rubber in poor condition.Removing the strip revealed rusted out fixing clips but one was undamaged and served as a pattern to make up some new ones in stainless steel.The strip was then replaced on a bed of sealing compound.as a temporary repair the damaged rubber was covered with 'Liquid Rubber' a product more commonly used for roof repair.A leak into the nearside of the boot took some time to trace,front and rear screen leaks are a common problem on a lot of these big Rovers.This one was coming in on one side of the top chromed strip then running all round the inside before emerging under the filler cap and then into the boot. |
| The rear door cards were in pretty good order but taken off and dried out.A few clips were rusted and replaced and the interior of the doors sprayed with Eureka fluid film anti corrosion treatment.The doors had been repaired in the past but had only a couple of holes that had been filled,the window mechanism and locks were oiled and the trim cards refitted. Cellulose paint in the original colours Burnt Grey and Silver Birch was available and both proved reasonable matches for the paint already on it,the rear of the boot had some pin holes but the body is in good sound condition other than a few minor blemishes. |
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Broken window winders on P5s are a common fault,they aren't very strong and the gears wear quickly.The winder on the drivers door had been repaired with welds and pop rivets.It eventually broke again and the glass ended up in the bottom of the door.I repaired it with steel rivets and a blob of weld.The winder fitted is probably not the correct unit (probably from a rear door) as it fouled the door when the window was lowered,I cut off some of the teeth on the opposite to the window arm.Stocks of replacement front winders are hard to find in good condition,the rear units are used less often and are often fitted in front doors when the originals fail. The window winding mechanism is a real tussle to get out of the doors even with the frame removed. |
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This is a front wheel bearing that overheated on a trip.The outer race has cracked,the picture doesn't show it but the race was very badly pitted.The race was hard to remove but a new replacement simply dropped in.The hub was damaged,a temporary repair was made with Loctite and using a punch to 'dimple' the bearing housing but the entire hub was later replaced. The outer race and roller cage are of different makes and the sizing was different (the rollers being too wide) Prior to getting hot the bearing turned quietly and without play.Just goes to show that you can't be too carefull. |
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The underside of the rover and the box sections and sills etc were treated with the car up on some very heavy wooden ramps. I used both the black Waxoyl and Fluid Film.The handbake linkage was coated in grease and the rear springs were greased and then wrapped in a heavy black PVC secured with strong cable ties.
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I've started to make up some new rear mounts for the springs.The old rubbers have split and are badly distorted. The new mounts are made from a single piece of 3mm mild steel plate.The mountings are land rover diesel engine mounts which are larger than the original spring mounts.The mounts will be slightly larger than the originals (3mm taller) but are of stronger and stiffer construction. |
The vacuum advance mechanism was faulty (a common fault) and the points burnt.I was quoted thirty pounds or more for a set of ignition points and around two hundred for a replacement distributor.Electronic ignition might be an alternative but the older type electronic rev counters are sometimes incompatible with some electronic systems.These Smiths electronic rev counters are now fourty odd years old and were not that accurate when new.I found mine to be even less accurate in hot weather,normally reading much higher than it should.The condition of the electrical connections and position of the single coiled white wire on the rear of the instrument are critical but probably old condensors changing in value with increased temperature are a reason for the false readings.
The points for a later distributor (the type with the concentric plate holding the points,the plate on the earlier dizzy is triangular) fitted if the locating pin is ground off and the adjustment slot enlarged),these cost six quid.
The advance retard unit can be removed,by straightening the turned over flange the two halves of the unit can be seperated and a new diaphram made from PVC,this has proved to work well.A dwell meter should be used to set the points and the timing set with a timing light,the initial point gap is 14 to 16 thou. The P5B v8 has low oil pressure compared to other engines which means the oil light can flicker with a hot engine at idle.
The alternator charge light is operated by a 3AW charging relay.These fail and are virtually irreplaceable,although some old stock is available at over thirty pounds.I replaced the unit with an American made solid state unit which cost less than half that.It tucks away beside the fuse box,almost out of sight.
The fettling of the car continues,I'm renewing much of the under carpet sound insulation felt and attending to missing and worn grommets in the bulkhead etc to reduce noise.I have other vehicles to attend to but I intend to keep this car for a long time to come.
I'm always interested in any parts or spares for rover p5 or p5b.Either to buy,swap or trade.Please contact me if you have anything.
Conclusion.
The poor mans Rolls?.I've never driven a Rolls to compare it with but the Rover on the road is a relaxed and reasonably quiet car with a suprising turn of speed.The steering is very light and takes some getting used to but the brakes are very much up to the cars performance.Set correctly the BW35 changes up and down without fuss,progress is smooth and the engine note seldom intrudes.The ride can be harsh,some bumps catch out the suspension but on major roads its fine.This is after all a very old design and a car built very differently to modern machine assembled ones.The doors close with a railway carriage thud,the smell of old leather and wood just can't be found in much else and people from pensioners to school boys stare at it driving past. So was it all worth it? Absolutely.
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Over twenty five years ago this was me,realising the three litre rover P5 I'd bought was beyond my capabilities to repair,(but I wish now I'd salted some of its spares away).I seem to remember the car cost me about fifty pounds,happy days! The inner wings on this car were rotted both front and rear and the corrosion had spread well into the body structure,
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Links to other sites connected with six cylinder Rover P5 and V8 P5B etc.
Rover P5 Forum.Discussions,advice and technical advice.A section for the 6 cylinder 3litre version (P5) also active.Essential info for any P5 or P5b owner.
Arononline History and development of the Rover P5 and P5b.From the early Mk1 saloon to the last of the V8 coupes.
Squidoo.Short article about rovers early days and the story behind the Rover P5.
Wikipedia Details the Rover Mk1,Mk2,Mk3 3 litres and the P5b 3.5 lire V8 vehicles.Dates and modifications etc.
Gaskets for cars. Gaskets,gasket making paper and materials for sealing leaks in gaskets and cylinder blocks etc.
Buying a Rover P5b as an investment an article in the Telegraph (UK).
Classic car portrait Picture and specifications of the Rover P5b.
New Zealand Rover Club. Online owners manuals,and much more of interest.
V8 tuner.Tuning gear and parts for all Rover v8 engines.
N.C.V.C The Norwich Classic Vehicle Club.My local car club.
Links to other sections.
I am clearing out numbers of imperial and metric spanners,sockets and tuning tools etc on Ebid auctions.